Episode 060 - Beyond the Saddle: Circle Y’s Legacy and the Myths of Saddle Fit

Taylor McAdams: Hey everybody, and thanks for listening to the kick your boots up podcast, as you always like subscribe, share this with your friends. Comment below what you want to see you like it. Don't like it. Tell us we want to hear it all. We are joined to today by an iconic brand, circle wise salary, and they have a story to tell. I love the connection there, that it's a Texas brand Justin as well as a Texas brand. And so we have a lot to learn, but before we get learn about the company, we've got to get to know the people first. So to my right, we have Jill Holloman, and she's an account manager at Circle y. Jill, how long have you been with circle y? I've been with them 13 and a half years. Okay, wow. Yeah, we're gonna have to dive deep into that one. That's awesome. And then Scott McClarty, Scott, thank you for being on the podcast. A decision to hop in today. And how long have you been with a company that you have been with, Casper companies for 25 years. Wow. Okay, so together, this is a powerhouse. We have so much to talk about there, and I think let's just get started with you, Scott. Tell us about how you got to where you are today. Talk Talk us through the 25 years of of Casper and how you gotten here. Yeah. So it started. Casper companies is a family owned and operated business based in shiner, Texas. We've been in operation since 1898

Scott McClaugherty: so we're now in the fifth generation of management for the business. If you go back to the very beginning, Casper company started when barbed wire came to Texas. Okay, that's a fun fact. Yeah, the smooth wire was being taken down, so the founder of the founder of the company started making corn shuck baskets, horse muzzles, things of that nature, and started selling them. And kind of fast forward through the years, you know, developed the first wire shopping cart. So what you use at your grocery store was developed at Casper companies. Okay,

Taylor McAdams: that's going to be a quiz at the end of this. Yes. Who invented and developed the first shop wire, shopping cart for industries, you know, so

Scott McClaugherty: through that, you'll find we're innovators, yeah, you know, typically and problem solvers. Fast forward a few years beyond that, developed the coin operated mechanism for newspaper stands, and we owned 90% of the newspaper stand business in North America throughout the years,

Jill Hollomon: in little shiner Texas. Shiner

Scott McClaugherty: Texas, a town of 2000 people,

Taylor McAdams: home of shiner beer. We're right across the

Scott McClaugherty: street, okay. Wow. And then how I got involved with the business Casper companies owned ranch hand truck accessories for 20 something years, wow. So I worked in that, that area, in that part of the business, for, you know, about 18 years. And then, you know, we have several other subsidiaries that I'm involved with, with the business. We had the opportunity to buy circle I in August of last year. So we acquired circle I, and really excited to, you know, have circle i as part of Casper companies. Oh,

Taylor McAdams: yes, that is a huge win for you guys. I know as a fan of circle, I saw those myself. It's very big. So Jill kind of fill in the gaps there with circle y. I mean, how tell us about your beginnings in 1960s Yeah,

Jill Hollomon: so I didn't start 1960 circle y was started in 1960 by Amanda, his last name story, and his family started this little saddle company, and it blossomed into circle y, and has been in Yoakum, Texas the whole time. The nice thing about Casper is they're nine miles from us, so it wasn't like it's a big, yeah, so we're really close, and most of all the employees know each other, so it makes it really family, but it says it's been a family business for, you know, almost 65 years. And so they we do saddles. We do, you know, all of the accessories for horses. And we really strive to fill all the gaps of where everybody needs. So we, we're really strong in trail. We're strong in barrel. We build great ranch and rope saddles. And, you know, any shape, size, human, any size, shape and horse, we cover all of that, and we build beautiful products. We have really great craftsmen right there. And Yoakam used to be known as the leather capital of the world, and that's where there was all the saddle companies were down there. And now it's basically us and one other that are still there. Yeah, and we're very dominant. I can proudly say we are the number one saddle company in the world as far as volume. Yes, we build 1000s of saddles a year. We sell all over the world. We have accounts in Australia, Europe, all over the place. So we're a big deal.

Taylor McAdams: You are a big deal. There's a few things that I learned when I was a little girl about circle y1. Of them was my, one of my first barrel saddles was a Martha Josie, absolutely. And so you have, you've been able to have, over the years, partnerships with Martha Josie. Sharon Camarillo, yeah. I'm just gonna look here really quick, because Kelly Kaminski, that was another legend that I grew up listening to. Her name, yeah, Clay trying, yes, huge T roping, because that just shows right there that you can do it all, everything with the cowgirls, but then also help the cowboys and probably more T rope. You probably sell more T roping saddles.

Jill Hollomon: No, we're i. We're getting our in there. Okay, okay. Clay really helping us. And we bake. We sell a lot of the just non name ones, circle white, okay, roping saddles. And we sell a lot to stores for that entry level price point for the weekend roper. And now we're starting to get more into the the really elite roping and the ranch saddles. That's our next little hurdle.

Taylor McAdams: Yeah, that's so good. Yeah, we have one of our founders, or one of our higher ups executive, says, crawl, walk, run. And I think that's so true. Like in any business, crawl, you gotta crawl first, get master it and stuff. Okay, so the other the second part of circle y, how I have grown to love you guys was I was rodeo queen. Anyone who's listened, they know that I talked about my trauma. No, I'm just kidding, no. But circle y saddles is a sponsor for Miss Rodeo America, and Justin is sponsor of is a sponsor of Miss Rodeo America. So that's so cool. Ads are coming together. Yes, I'm thinking this is so awesome. Yes, we

Jill Hollomon: do the circle. The circle Y does the saddles for the queen contest for Miss Rodeo America. And so we the award saddle is ours, and then we also do the saddles that they do the horsemanship in. So they test, they switch horses, and they can't ride in their own equipment, so they all ride in our saddles, and which is huge, yes, and we never come home with any the Queens always buy the saddles. It really

Taylor McAdams: is. It's kind of a win, win for you. Yes, you can almost know going into it. Yeah, we're gonna give this to you guys, but we're probably gonna make money a lot, exactly. And honestly, that just goes to show how reputable you guys are, and, oh yeah, how good your fit is. Yeah, we need to spend it's just a second talking about that, because there's even on your website, which I love, by the way, that you guys broke down the myths of SAT of saddle fits for horses. Because a lot of people think that the saddle needs to fit a little bit further on the withers, or they think even further back. I've seen some of that. So talk about the fit and how perfect or important it is for getting the perfect fit for your horse, which makes everything collide together, go together.

Jill Hollomon: Well, I'm gonna squash one myth right now. There is no standard in the saddle tree business. So if you go buy tires. You could go buy a 195, 215, whatever. It's the same size and shape and measurement in every tire company, in saddle companies, there is no standard. So for you to say, I need a wide tree, it won't fit the same in a other brand as it will, and even within the circle y brand because of the discipline. So a wide trail saddle is going to fit differently than a wide barrel saddle versus a wide ramping saddle, yes, because of the where it fits on the horse and how it's meant to sit and for the discipline it is. So barrel racers, we want to sit deep, but we want to be able to get forward and get back. Team ropers want to stay right in the middle of their horse, so they're sitting on a wider, more close contact saddle. So those bar angles are gonna be different. So what you do is don't make it rocket science. Too many people make it rocket science. They get too far in the weeds and they watch too much stuff on YouTube. So I'm gonna make it very simple for everybody right now. Okay, put it on your horse's back without a pad. Put your hand up underneath there and feel where it's tight and where it's sitting, step back, see if there's any gaps under there where it's bridging, which is where it's making contact in two different spots and not making contact. The hole you want the whole bars. Okay, so if these are the bars you want that to make as much contact as possible. If it's bridging, it could be sitting right here on the bar and right here, and you can stick your hand under there that's causing pain points on the horse's back. That could be a pad issue, where you could just pad and solve that problem, or that saddle isn't for that horse. Then step back and make sure is it sitting level on your horse. It's not tipping down in the front, which means, typically, it's too wide, so it's like a big hat, and it's sitting way down. You want to sit in that sweet spot. If it's tipped up in the front, it's too narrow. Or if it won't sit down on either side, it's too narrow. So it's just sitting in the wrong spot of the rib cage. You want to get as close to perfect as you can. It will never be perfect. And then you also take into account how much do you ride? If you're only riding for 30 minutes and you're just walking around the pasture and checking cows. The Fit doesn't have to be perfect, perfect, because your horse, you're only up there so long. It's not gonna It's like women, and you'll understand high heels. You can stand to be in high heels for a couple hours. They are the most uncomfortable shoes. Yes, 30 minutes and you're out. If you're gonna sit most the day, you can wear high heels. Same thing goes with a saddle. It doesn't have to be a perfect fit. I get parents all the time this saddle doesn't fit my kid's horse. Your kid weighs 40 pounds and he's riding him for 20 minutes, that horse doesn't even know he's up there. And I'm not saying you don't want a bad fit, but get it as close as possible, and there is a life expectancy on your saddle pad. I know that breaks a lot of people's hearts.

Taylor McAdams:  My dad out there, there are some people that are getting hurt by this.

Jill Hollomon: Most saddle pads are dog beds after two years, and some of them even sooner than that. There are people that said this pad is only eight years old. The sweat and the dirt and the horsehair that gets built in there makes hard crap. Rusty dirt clods in your saddle pad and you can't wash it out. The wool has broke down, or the padding material is broke down, and you don't wear socks that are eight and nine years old, so don't put them on your horse's back. So there's a lot of that that plays in. Another thing to take into consideration is there's three, four seasons in Texas. We only have one two maybe, right? Yes, and football season and the same day. Yes, we may have fall, winter and spring, all in the same day. Your horse's body and confirmation changes with the seasons. In the winter, they get a little fatter. They put an extra hair coat on, which changes this shape. Yeah, right. Here. I Winter well, and your horse is confirmation. So you might go to a thinner pad in the winter, because he's plumped up a little bit. So your saddle is going to sit a little tighter in the summer, when they're sleek and they've shed off their hair, your saddle is going to fit a little bigger. So you could go with a little thicker pad. Typically, a three quarter inch pad is all you ever need if you're team roping, please don't use two one inch pads, because that's way too much and you're changing the conformation of your horse's back. Wow. So the biggest scenario I can give people to make it simple is think of your foot in your boot. If your boot fits great on your foot, why would you put two pair of socks? It doesn't make your foot more comfortable in there. It makes it crammed in the hole, and it's more squished and pinching, and your foot's confirmation has changed so much. Now, with two pair of socks, the boots don't fit anymore. If your saddle is fitting tight. I hear people all the time saying, I'm gonna put two pads on or a really thick one and a half inch pad, because I want more padding. Well, all you've done is changed his confirmation that saddle fits horribly. I'd rather you be in a half inch pad. If it's tight, then, you know, so find a good dance pad. Rainsman and three quarter inch is perfect. I

Taylor McAdams: feel so you've opened my eyes and I've ridden my whole life. I never even, of course, we changed our paths, but I didn't know the reason. I was just like, Okay, we're gonna do this. Yeah, you did

Jill Hollomon: mention something else too about sitting it on the horse's back. And I see this a lot. People will either put it too far forward or too far back, and then when they put it so far back, it falls in the hole behind the shoulder blade, and they're like, See, my saddle doesn't fit well. When you stand back and look where your rigging is hanging. It should be about one hand behind the elbow on the the to the cinch. So if it's clear back here you're rigging. You can't cinch your horse up. It's going to be sitting like this because your cinch is too far back. And then try and pull it forward. And so your rigging should hang right there. That's one of the signs of where should my saddle fit on the horse's back with his confirmation,

Taylor McAdams: and you're so knowledgeable. So this might be a hot take, so forgive me if I am backing you in a corner, we can totally skip it. But I feel like in counseling, bear with me. In counseling, they say our job is to, like, get you out of counseling because we want you to be better and stuff. For you guys, your job is probably to not have horses in therapy or chiropractic therapy or awkward or whatever. Yes, because you want their confirmation to be good,

Jill Hollomon: yes, right, yeah. And so we build saddles to fit 90% of the horses out there, the general public. And we also build different trees. We build trees for foundation bread. So if your horse is that real round, flat back, we make trees for that. We also make trees for the walking horses that have the real short back, high, withered or real round rib cage. So we make a, you know, we make the gated trees, then we make everything else is based on Quarter Horse bars. But that doesn't mean that only fits quarter horses. So you just have to look at your horse's back. We make mule trees to fit mules. So there's different reasons for all of that, but we try and take all the guesswork out of it, and so you as a consumer cannot stress about it. We deal a lot with customers who make too much out of it, and they stress so much about it that they're not even having fun now. They're so afraid they're hurting their horse. And I will go do saddle fits and push on their back, and I there's no sore spots on your horses. You're good pad a little different. Maybe buy a new pad, and there's still times you have to shim because your horse may have a little abnormal. None of us are symmetrical on both sides of our bodies, and that same goes with horses. You know, I have two feet that are two different sizes. I don't go buy two different sized shoes. I find the pair that fits the best between the two, and I live with it. You meet in the middle, yeah, and you'll find horses that might need a little thicker pad on this side than this side. And it's, you know, just use common sense. And think I'm trying to make these two bars that run down the horse's back, yes, make the most contact for the most comfort, and then go from there. And one

Taylor McAdams: thing that you mentioned which I know, and you know, we all know what a saddle tree is, but some people out there might not. So I know that it's a tree because it's made out of wood, but tell me a little bit about the history of a tree, you know. Tell me about a saddle tree. Okay, pretend I don't know. Okay,

Jill Hollomon: so saddle trees are mostly made out of wood, and they'll have, and sometimes they'll only have, like a wood candle and a wood pommel. The horns are typically LED. Um metal, not leather. They're wrapped in leather. And then we wrap our trees in either fiberglass, or we call it durahide, or we also wrap most of our performance saddles in Kevlar, which is super strong. So all the strength is in the Kevlar, not the wood. When it's fiberglass, then use a heavier wood. So that gives you the strength in the wood versus the fiberglass. Fiberglass is really strong too, but the Kevlar makes it super strong. And with those trees, we can offer a lifetime warranty on the tree. Oh, wow. The other ones, we offer a 10 year warranty. So we have a really good warranty program with our trees, but it's basically the frame that holds the whole saddle together, like the frame of your truck. So, you know, in your truck, you have the frame, the chassis and all that that your comfy seats and your, you know, your stereo is attached to, it makes the whole truck ride. Yeah. And then we also make flex trees. I'm gonna be confident again and say that we probably make the best flex tree in the world. Everybody's tried to copy us. You can claim it. I'm claiming it. Yes,

Taylor McAdams: you heard it here first. You

Jill Hollomon: heard it here first, and and it basically, people think it's the Flex is like a treeless it's not, and it basically works like leaf springs in your truck. So at neutral, it's not flexing. I never but as your horse, if you picture a barrel horse running into a turn, they're going to arc their whole body, the front of the bars and the back of the bars are just going to give slightly and just give that release with still having a solid top half where it's making contact on the horse so it's not flopping around. I hear a lot of people say, Oh, I don't want that because it's treeless. No, it has a solid tree in it. It's the lower bars flex slightly. And for us, it's very popular in some of our barrel saddles, which makes perfect sense, and our trail saddles, which is interesting, probably, for the more movement, the movement, they're going up and down the hills and stuff like that, and the comfort, because trail riders tend to ride longer than, say, a barrel racers, maybe an hour. And then the trail riders could be all day, the sack lunch, you know. So it's a little more comfortable. And then we make a trailer saddle. That's the best trailer, yes. So it has a solid wood front and a solid wood back, and then it's neoprene skirt, so you have no bars. And so they're great for fitting. It still has to fit the horse because of the candle and this, the wood parts still have to fit, but generally it takes a lot of the fit issues out because you're not fitting the bar spread.

Taylor McAdams: So okay, so when in doubt, if something, if you can't get a saddle to fit right, maybe treeless is something, yeah,

Jill Hollomon: try. And we have stores all over the country that you could go try them, and go to any barrel race, there's treeless everywhere. And just try a circle y1 and throw it on there, and then you can order you one, okay?

Taylor McAdams: And right online, too, right,

Jill Hollomon:  right online? Yeah, you can order online, or we'll lead you to you just get, we have a locator in there, and you can go to stores and they do saddle fits as well. At stores, you take your horses there. You know, I

Taylor McAdams: can't tell you how many times I've pulled up to retailers in the area and there's a horse that was in the trailer that they're now getting out to size. I'm like, Heck yes, that is the best bring your horse to the store. 

Jill Hollomon: Yeah, a lot of the stores have really knowledgeable people that can help you. And they just, everybody wants to make it they try and keep it simple. The biggest advice I could give anybody is, don't make it too complicated. Go back to common sense and go Wait. What's my objective? I want the bars to fit this horse. When you start making it too complicated, you nothing will fit. And I will tell you that, and you'll worry so much. So we talk a lot of people down off of the cliff, going, you're gonna be okay. Yeah, your horse is not impossible to fit. And some of them I've seen just need to pull a plow. They'll never fit. You know, they're just not meant to ride. But it's okay, that's okay, yeah.

Taylor McAdams: And for you, you're very knowledgeable on the saddle side, on circle y, but then also, you're a barrel racer too. So tell us about that. Your experience. You said you just started up. Well,

Jill Hollomon: back up. I started back up. So I ran from 11 years old up until I was 40, and I'm only 3995 right now. So there's that 2121 and I took 10 or 12 years off because work was just busy and crazy, and they were just standing in the pasture. So I sold everything, trailer, went to a car, everything, yeah. Started crisis. Start working for circle y. And I thought, well, if I ever get back into it, I know where I could get a saddle. So I just let it all go. I kind of just needed a break. And during covid, i doing a whole lot of sitting home. And I was like, hmm, I kind of want to get back into it. So Santa Claus got me a gift certificate, yes, yes. Gave me a budget, and we went and found a diamond in the rough, and so I started running again three years ago, and the last couple years has just been chaotic, so I haven't really ran, but this year, my New Year's resolution was I was gonna start running again. So I've been hitting some jackpots, and not as young as I used to be, but we're doing all right, so that's okay, yeah, I'm at least doing it. And I will say that, because it takes a lot to get back. And I talked to a lot of older women that are getting back into it. It's kind of funny, after the kids are raised, they're like, I'm getting back into it. And we have our own little mom group that we keep everybody okay, you can do this, and we cheer each other on. I'm in a. Lot of senior races, and it's a good time, because there's no kids there, no offense kids, but

Taylor McAdams: it's a good time you feel like you have a shot. Yeah, in Texas too. I was in Oklahoma, and I always heard how tough Texas is, so even if you feel like you have a good run, you could not even make the money, you know, yeah,

Jill Hollomon: no. And everything's, you know, it's been going good, and I'm getting better everyone. And that's I'm setting my personal goals, and everything's going good, so I'm happy with that, and I'm meeting so many nice people out there too. And so it's been fun to get back with that camaraderie and, yeah, you know, and meeting people in the industry, like just getting with this group at Casper, and the opening the doors of meeting all these other people, and, you know, now, with the new hire over here, and getting to work with you guys, and all the opportunities, I just really love where I'm at in my life and where the industry is. And, you know, it's everybody wants to be a cowboy, and here we are. And, you know, everybody put your boots on. I don't care if you have a horse or not. Let's all get back to being country. Yeah,

Taylor McAdams: make it country again. And, yeah, you're exactly right spot on. I'm so glad you said that, because it does. It feels like everyone is going back to country. Zach top, have you heard of him?

Jill Hollomon:  The other day, my husband said, Have you heard this kid? And he sounds like, George Street. George Street, vintage country. Like, what we're needing? Yeah, exactly.

Taylor McAdams: And I think that's so good. Like, especially with like, we have Jenna, Paulette, Laney, Wilson, so many people that are really core 90s western country. I'm like, thank you. This is a time to be alive. Yes, us that were born in the 90s, we can say that we've been a part of the 90s country, and now the 2024 country, exactly. Yeah,

Jill Hollomon:  bringing it back. You're bringing back old boots from when I was okay, let's talk about that. Ropers, the racers. Yeah, look at that. I'm like, Wow. Good job, guys. And I

Taylor McAdams: don't know if I can say this, so they might wait me out for this, but we're coming with men's lacers, which is, like, that's exactly how it started. Yeah,

Jill Hollomon: so that's exciting vintage. Here comes the lawman jeans and the Rocky Mountains. No

Taylor McAdams: back pockets, multiple buttons in the front for the really

Jill Hollomon: long jacket zippers for us via, yeah, coming back. Hey, bring it. I'm excited. So well, I

Taylor McAdams: have loved this time. And I guess before we go, I can't help but ask you, since you're restarting into the Western industry, well, you're not restarting the West restarting into barrel racing. What is your best piece of advice for someone? Because I know there's a lot of us out there that had to take a break during college. We're getting our careers started. Who knows? We're even Switching gears, whatever it is. What's your best advice for someone wanting to get back at it? Well,

Jill Hollomon: I just say, if the opportunity is right, go for it. Yeah, because you're never going to do it. If you just keep saying, if if this happens, I will find the can, if this one taught me can, if. So, you know, make it happen. I got my horse and then I rode her for the first year and didn't even leave the house because I was terrified. The next year, I didn't go anywhere, but I held her to the vet and to the shoeer. That was the only time I used my trailer. And now that I'm back in it, just like I said, the camaraderie and just being in the saddle, my some of my days are so stressed. I come home and it might be 830 at night, I've got 15 minutes till dark to get on and just go Lopes in circles or just walk around it is to be around a horse, right? And just to be in this industry, in that level, is just so wonderful. And it's, I mean, I just keep going back to the camaraderie. I The other night, I was at a barrel race and stood in line waiting for my awards. Yeah, it sounds like I'm braggy, braggy, but it was. But I stood and talked to this lady, and she was in the same boat as me. She took 20 years off to have kids and do all that, and now she's back running, and she goes, I just love being back. I'm not as worried about things. You know, it's just get back into it and don't wait. You know, don't do it if you're not financially ready, because it's a bunch to bite off, I will say, but we were just talking about that. He's got a daughter going to college rodeo, and, you know, they're expensive dogs, so, but don't if the opportunity's there, take it, because this industry and being gone, the new things that are out there, that are out there for you in this industry now makes things easier better, fits better. You know, more education people get down the rabbit hole on bits. There's so much more education out there about what bit to use. And it's just easier this time around for people. I think if you get back into it, if you

Taylor McAdams: just do it, follow your gut, whatever that is the best advice,

Jill Hollomon: and have fun. That's what I'm doing. I'm going just having a good time. I come down the alley and I'm like, well, take care of me, Lord. And I just go for it. And I come out and I went, Oh, that was so much fun. I want to go again. That's what you got to do. Yeah,

Taylor McAdams:  that's right. Have fun. You got to remember that sometimes it's hard with everything you

Jill Hollomon: Do, yes, everything you do, yeah, have fun. We have fun. At work, we have fun. Okay, 

Taylor McAdams:  I've heard that Diana said, very good people. Fun people. I love that. I'm so happy for you guys.

Jill Hollomon:  We're a fun time. 

Taylor McAdams:  The merger. When did the merger happen? Where?

Jill Hollomon: Last August on the button. Yeah

Taylor McAdams: Wow. Okay, so future plans. What do you, without telling too much, what do you have in the works? It’s bright.

Scott McClaugherty:  It is bright. You know, we're, you know, we've taken the first year to really, you know, embrace the business and, you know, merge the two cultures. And, you know, we're the future is very bright. We've got some fun things coming from product side, branding perspective, you know, some ambitious growth goals for the company. So yes, you know, we're really excited. And for us, the one thing we like, you know, like Jill said, just the people, you know, the people in the industry are so much fun, and they're just they're genuine, yeah? And that's the one of the biggest things we like about it, yeah. And that is

Taylor McAdams: Honestly refreshing, because if you go to other industry, industries that are so cutthroat and competitive and nasty, it's a breath of fresh air to realize, at the end of the day, no matter what we sell, no matter who we're competitors with, we're still humans. And I think people, I think, appreciate that more in the Western industry. Yeah, yeah. I mean,

Jill Hollomon: This morning, you had three different vendors helping another vendor, their whole booth fell down, and three different competitors, literally competitors. We were all up there helping put their booth together. So it was, you know, that's the camaraderie that is that 

Taylor McAdams: Right there along with alongside, rodeo competitors. You know, rodeo competitors travel all the time against their most competitive Yeah, partner, but they just, they help each other out.

Jill Hollomon: Yeah, you're broke down. Jump in. Yeah, in my trailer. 

Taylor McAdams:  You forgot your gear bag. You're telling Yeah, absolutely, you forgot your saddle. Here's this conversation has been so fun, and I'm sure we can have another conversation down the line of just everything that you have going forward, and everything big. But I do appreciate you guys taking the time out of your business, having us here to have to be on the Kickapoo podcast. Yes, thanks for having us, of course. And if you guys are interested in following circle y on social media, they're on Instagram and Facebook primarily are the two ones you're going to want to reach out to. So on Instagram, you can find them at Circle Y Saddles and Facebook, same thing. Circle y saddles. Thank you so much for listening to their story. If you liked what you heard, go follow them first of all, but also like, subscribe, share this with your friends. Tell everyone about it. If you have questions about how your saddle should fit, or maybe something that you're having a problem with your horse and saddle, feel free to comment below. We can pass those questions along, and I know they'll be happy to answer them. So thanks for joining us on the Kick Your Boots Up podcast. Thanks for joining us on kick your boots up. I'm your host, Taylor McAdams, and we can't wait to share the next story of the West. Until then, feel free to like, subscribe and leave us a review. Follow us on social media at Justin boots to keep up with our next episode, and we'll see you the next time you kick your boots up.